Conference #07
Participants: Phil Rice (US), Michelle Pettit-Me (CAN), Zachariah Scott (US), Frank Fox (US), Damien Valentine (UK), Joe90 Bronet (UK), Nefarious Guy (US), Ricky Grove (US), Kotarou Kaligawa (?), Rev Gothly (US), Ingrid Moon (US), Popcorn Pastorelli (?).
Primary topic this week was the various ways of bringing custom content (especially 3d models) into various machinima platforms. Discussion evolved from there to a number of other topics. The talk was very enjoyable, I’m really liking these things. We met this time on Magnatune.com’s Second Life land, and the only drawback I could think of was that building / scripting were more restricted than they would be if we’d met on land controlled by one of us. That’s an issue to think about for future meetups, if it even matters.
The topics:
- Bringing custom content into various machinima platforms:
- Grand Theft Auto - 3ds Max has a user-made plugin which can export models to the type accepted by GTA; some additional modding of config/script files is required to get the game to recognize the model.
- Source (Half-Life 2, etc.) - Bringing in custom characters is extremely difficult, moreso because of the rigging-for-animation difficulty than the modeling itself; props are a simpler procedure. Half-Life 2 uses a free custom version of XSI to bring in its models. Zach brought up the interesting point that one has access to characters and assets from ANY Source game (that has been purchased, I assume), giving him about 100 unique characters to choose from, which can be reskinned as needed. Some characters are better rigged for full Faceposer animations than others.
- The Sims 2 - Custom prop models can be brought into the game using a tool called SimPE; various modeling programs can be used to create the meshes (which can also be used for hair, body types, and so on, not just static props). It’s not what I’d call an easy process, but it’s not the hardest out there. Skinning and recoloring of existing objects is a very straightforward procedure (with Bodyshop for characters stuff they wear, SimPE for static props) once you’ve done it a few times. ModTheSims2.com has an exhaustive set of tutorials on these topics.
- Second Life - Models themselves cannot be brought into Second Life (though they can in a way via Sculpted Prims), but it’s not really an issue as virtually anything can be built right in the engine. We wondered if there was any way to get custom content from Second Life into an OpenSim server; it seems unlikely, but no one knew for sure yet.
- Flight Sim Games - Custom plane models cannot be brought in without implementing “cheats” which that community frowns upon, but planes can be recolored and per Joe90 it’s not an uncommon practice especially when doing historical reenactment machinima. I neglected to ask him about whether “props” (i.e. objects on the ground) might be possible.
- Jedi Academy - Per Damien and several others who’d worked with this game, it’s an extremely mod friendly machinima environment. LucasArts provided tools for modding and bringing in content, but left it up to the users to figure out how to make use of them. (Does that sound familiar to anyone?)
- iClone - All number of custom models can be brought into iClone via their 3dXchange add-on, including items from the Google 3d Warehouse (Google Sketchup models). Phil commented that the procedure has quite a few steps to “prepare” the model for use in iClone. There are video tutorials available on the Reallusion YouTube Channel.
- Antics - Antics 3.1 incorporated the ability to import models directly from Google 3d Warehouse (Sketchup), and both Phil and Ricky commented on what an easy procedure it was. Phil had seen it first hand this week at an Antics webinar presented by Brad of Antics Technologies. I think Antics supports some other input formats as well?
- Moviestorm - Bringing in custom props and characters is possible via the Mod Workshop, made easier by making use of nbconv, a user-created conversion tool. Phil and Frank both commented on some big challenges related to getting models and animations into Cal3d format, which is what Moviestorm uses. All expressed hope that Moviestorm would step up with a solution to make the importing of custom content a more accessible procedure, that Moviestorm’s true power would be unleashed once this door is opened.
- ZenCu3ed - A relative newcomer to the independent machinima scene, it is planned for this program to have a number of methods by which to bring in user content. Ricky let it be known how impressed he was by their team’s enthusiasm and desire to make their tool as useful and user-friendly as possible. Frank mentioned he really liked the interface. Phil mentioned he still hadn’t tried it b/c it doesn’t yet work on Vista, but that he might be able to put it on another PC running XP.
- Acting - Ricky began by asking people for their input on the upcoming Overcast episode on Acting; lots of good thoughts and discussion followed regarding the challenges of getting good voiceover results.
- Machinima.com - Joe90 inquired why many filmmakers seemed to be critical of the site in its present state. Discussion followed, and there appeared to be a general feeling that with the re-branding approach Machinima.com does on its site and YouTube Channel, some filmmakers feel like they (the content creators) are overshadowed by Machinima.com’s efforts to self-promote.
- Ricky mentioned an article in the new 3D World Magazine (104) on machinima. Nice overview of machinima development from 1999 to present day.
- Headphone/Microphone Combos - Ricky recommended his Sennheiser P150, and there was talk about “you get what you pay for” with a cheap unit.
- Zach talked some more about Faceposer and the problems you have using it with Microsoft Vista. He discussed some workarounds, but basically it doesn’t work as well as with XP. He also said he didn’t think it was ever going to be fixed.
- Zach also brought up machinimatic.com a site he is hoping will be an alternative to machinima.com. It’s still in development and will start having content in a couple months. He and the site founder (of Leet World, if I remember right) are trying to come up with a reasonable rating system so that the site will have good machinima; somewhere between the “everything goes” of machinima.com and the high end of machiniplex.com
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The machinimatic link doens’t seem to be working
Comment by Elf — June 1, 2008 @ 1:49 am
Ooh, looks like a typo. It’s a dot com, I’ll fix now.
Comment by Overman — June 1, 2008 @ 2:23 am
I take it there was no discussion of getting new art assets into World of Warcraft? I remember Elf mentioning that there was a WoW custom content community, and being very, very interested by that…
Comment by Hugh "Nomad" Hancock — June 1, 2008 @ 6:49 am
Thank you all for the thoughtful, considered and objective opinions about machinima.com. Next time I’ll try to avoid the daft laddie questions
Phil, in answer to your questions if there are ‘props’ in a flight sim, lol - well actually this is a major problem for making movies that are not in the air. The ground objects suck big time. Some movies are starting to appear that mix in other games like Call of Duty for the ground action. I’m also trying to recreate a 1940 RAF dispersal room in Sims2 and chroma key in aircraft flying outside the window.
Do any other tools, maybe like moviestorm, have good 1940’s objects and players?
Was a pleaseure to meet you all in the unusual SL environment. Thats a great idea and at does gives some good visual feedback to conversations.
Comment by Russell (Joe90) — June 1, 2008 @ 8:56 am
@Hugh: The list of those covered arose out of discussion not presentation, we covered all platforms that those in attendance had knowledge of. (No one present at the conference was a WoW machinimator AFAIK).
@Joe90: You might want to take a look at Antics or iClone, both of which can import assets from that Google 3D Warehouse where you can find just about everything under the sun. I’ll bet you could build the period set you needed with one of those.
Comment by Overman — June 1, 2008 @ 12:09 pm
Hey Phil,
For future reference Zuckerman = Popcorn Pastorelli.
I don’t mean to stir the pot here willy-nilly but I thought things got a little weird last night at some point. I’m not sure if it had to do with all the machinima.com talk or what. Obviously there are quite a few negative feelings for that site and I’m sure it’s all very valid. I myself had a problem with them a while back and so I could understand why that little pocket of doom opened up there for a bit — It was even kinda funny. But, I’m kinda new to the Machinima community and so I know nothing of what all went down with most of you folks — I know everyone has their own story. But it does seem that many of you know each other’s stories already so nothing ever really gets said about it. It just is hinted at or kinda skirted past. And well, for me at least, it’s pretty damn potent — this sort of collective distaste with machinima.com. I know you all probably feel you’ve talked it to death but I think perhaps there needs to be some sort of big gigantic organized talk about it. Maybe even invite machinima.com to participate. I don’t know. There are two reasons for this. One is that it will hopefully clean a lot of the left-over nasty I-Hate-Machinima.com-Residue away, and, Two, it might perhaps provide some clues as to the future of machinima. Machinima.com right now is THE representative, the ambassador to the world, of machinima. This is due to the virtue of their name and of their publicity department. So, as machinimators, we all should be quite concerned with this site and what becomes of it because right now it is, in a form, speaking for us all. Hate them, love them, ignore them. It doesn’t matter. They are there — the ruling-by-default class. So, do we just make little jokes about them and move along or what? I am truly asking.
I know this will piss-off a handful of you, but, I’m ready. I just want to start a dialogue.
P.S. I will never use the term willy-nilly ever again. I sincerely apologize from the bottom of my heart.
Comment by Zuckerman — June 1, 2008 @ 4:07 pm
Thanks Phil, I also enjoyed yesterday’s discussion.
Zuckerman: Despite some of the stronger opinions last night, not all of us have a had a negative experience with the site as machinima directors. Obviously I can only speak from my own experience, but I found some of the comments were way off, especially with regards to the You Tube channel. I’ve always been given full credit//control on content I’ve submitted to the site whether it be films or tutorials and the communication with whoever I’ve dealt with, pleasant and helpful. As for inviting machinima.com along to the talks, I believe they’ve always had the option to attend, just like anyone else and would have been welcomed.
Comment by Michelle — June 1, 2008 @ 4:45 pm
Michelle, I think that’s part of the reason why I think things got weird for me — you thought some of the comment were way off but you didn’t say anything. Not that I blame you. It felt as if some folks were just keeping their mouths shut and so it created a kind of tension. There were a whole lot of egg shells.
There are a lot of strong important feelings about the whole thing and I’m saying it might be good to dedicate an entire conference to it. Or something.
Comment by Zuckerman — June 1, 2008 @ 4:54 pm
@Hugh: Indeed there is! See: Glowing Mushroom ( http://not.nogg-aholic.org/ )
The only obstacles are: It’s not … endorsed by Blizzard, to put it mildly, and that the toolset is constantly evolving and there’s a lot of reverse engineering involved. For some people though that’s right up their alley.
Comment by Elf — June 1, 2008 @ 5:07 pm
I never intended to stir up those feelings about machinima.com and, going into the conversation, not wanting to talk about the site at all. It just happened really. and it was a self sustaining kind of thing where those who had bad experiences would voice them, I understand that not everybody feels the way that some of us do, and I am sorry for inadvertently slipping the conversation down that track. I think zuckerman might be right somewhat, about the whole starting a dialogue thing.
But that segment of the conversation was small compared to the what, 3 hours that we spent talking. I think last nights was the best chat yet (that I have attended).
Comment by zachariah — June 1, 2008 @ 6:22 pm
Zuckerman, I did express my thoughts at the conference, but had switched to typing from voice, so maybe that’s why you missed what I said. I didn’t feel it was like walking on eggshells though, it was more a case of not wanting to speak on behalf of parties involved that weren’t there who may have had very different experiences. My advice to anyone would be, take the site/people as you find them and make up your own mind.
Comment by Michelle — June 1, 2008 @ 7:07 pm
Hi, Phil. Thanks for putting on the talk again. Well done as usual.
@Zuckerman: actually Michelle did speak up about m.com, although, as I remember she did most of it in the text chat window. This talk seemed to be more of a structured speaker type of event and so many of us chose to use the text chat. That is a departure from the usual free-form banter I’ve been used to at previous talks.
Comment by Fleef — June 1, 2008 @ 7:11 pm
Thanks Michelle for the text comments last night. I didn’t catch them all live but caught up with them in my log. I guess you were having a hard time finding a pause in the conversation!
I’m a relatively new to the wider community like some of you and have wondered for a long time what the inuendos about machinima.com were about. Personally I have had no bad experiences, and am grateful that the site hosted some of my own stuff and created an additional channel for those that I represent.
Zuckerman, your analysis and suggestion is excellent. It’s hard enough for people who have been around for a short time to figure out wtf is going on, and the newcomers must really get confused sometimes. Through them a bone, please! Maybe it’s about time everyone’s cards were put on the table so we can move our love of filmmaking into the bigger theatre without confusing the punters!
Comment by Russell (Joe90) — June 1, 2008 @ 7:40 pm
Michelle, I totally missed it. My bad. Also, I didn’t mean to say YOU were walking on eggshells — at all — just that perhaps there was a sort of general group tension about the whole thing. Also, I came in towards the last hour and so most of experience was rooted in the m.com stuff. So, I was all like, “Whoa. what did I just walk into?”
Fleefers, you have the coolest voice. First time I heard it. It was all like totally Fleefed-out. Anyway, I hear ya. Michelle spoke up. I missed it. I’m a jack-ass. Get a room.
Comment by Zuckerman — June 1, 2008 @ 7:46 pm
You are no jack-ass, Zuckerman! And thanks for the voice comments. I have a throat infection that’s making it VERY painful to speak right now. Let’s hope it’s still totally Fleefed-out when these antibiotics cure me.
Comment by Fleef — June 1, 2008 @ 8:19 pm
I think an open discussion with, or on the topic of, machinima.com is a splendid idea. Like Michelle said, their staff could have shown up at this or any of the conferences. In fact, I’ve been explicitly inviting two members of their staff (via Facebook) since the meetings began; they’ve yet to take me up on it, but there are lots of folks who are invited and haven’t been able to make it to one yet so it hasn’t really stuck out to me.
Anyway, if it’s just going to be a big gripefest, I don’t think I’m interested in using this conference for it. But if we moderate ourselves, keep level heads, and discuss it in a civil way, I think it has the potential to be productive or if nothing else educational.
I’m kinda bummed I was AFK while most of this was going on at Conf #07; Ricky kept notes for me from that point forward, I didn’t get to hear much of the latter half of the talk firsthand and would have found it interesting.
Comment by Overman — June 1, 2008 @ 8:55 pm